Consumers Taking Legal Action After Cash for Clunkers
If you had a bad experience and feel that fraud was committed, we encourage you to try to work things out without a lawusite. Lawsuits never seem to be the panacea that many think and often only the lawyers make the money in the end.
However, if you have been advised that your rights were violated and that legal action was needed, share you story if you choose for others to understand the aftermath of the NHTSA CARS program.
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This entry was posted on Saturday, August 22nd, 2009 at 8:48 pm and is filed under
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Hi guys, just to let you know, I used to post a ton here in the beginnning, but slowed down after i received my car.
I was verbally told that they’d send out a check for the metal scrap value, but they never sent the check, and have ignored my email since.
For those that are wondering, I filed a complaint via BBB, and behold, the panic dealership decides to write a check and even send me documentation of the scraps. I suggest everyone else does the same. Dealers hate the BBB.
Feel free to contact me if you need assistance.
annette just tell them to lick your butthole you got the good deal and are happy
Annette…your story gets more odd the more you explain the rationale for signing two contracts. This board is for taking legal action (meaining filing a law suit against a dealer) and it does not sound like you had to go that far. Wearing a dealer out through complaining sounds like the action taken, and it worked. That’s good, but hardly using the legal system–see the header for this board.
One further note – the denial of the first app was not due to anything I did wrong. It was the error of the dealership, and THAT is why I got my $ and my deal.
A
Marcus…
Man, you really don’t know anything about this program or contract law, do you? I mean NOTHING!!!
I’ll try to put it as simply as I can for you to understand. First, you need to know the situation – cars – good, qualifying autos, were being sold at a tremendous pace. As fast as I could locate a vehicle in 3 surrounding states, it would be gone before I could even get there.
The dealership was not completing any contract until they received approval AND $$ from the Fed, which was a clear violation, but hey.
The JCW Mini Clubman is an excellent yet hard to come by vehicle in our area, and International had it. I was NOT going to leave the vehicle, because there was little doubt that International would sell it to someone else without a CARS deal.
I insisted on the two contracts for the sole purpose of getting possession of the car. It was a contingency – if the CARS deal was not approved, the “non Cars” contract would take effect. I knew absolutely I qualified. I also know absolutely that International was not submitting correctly and that my app would not be approved as submitted.
As soon as I received the title for the car, I contacted International and demanded the CARS deal.
So, wise one, there really was nothing irrational about any of this. Except, perhaps, your obsession on criticizing people who actually took action to ensure the desired outcome.
Annette
Annette…glad you got your money back. I think the dealer realized that going to court against a mentally challenged plaintiff would be bad press. The evidence would support that situation–signing two contracts is not something a person in their right mind would do.
Blow them grits, baby…
Received the cash back… and the Dept of Trans is investigating them for deceit and fraud.
I can and DO take care of myself quite nicely, thank you.
Duh.
Annette
Annette…I just about blew my grits laughing at that one. You signed two contracts…duh, let’s see, which one will the dealer use? They could claim the other one did not exist, or some other story. Unless your legs are missing, you should have walked.
You do something dumb and there are consequences. Your political attempt shows you cannot take care of yourself–maybe it’s time for a special home so all your needs can be met?
Will…you failed to state what you signed…the contract you signed will prevail. If it is your favor (doubtful) you win…otherwise you’ll be in court or your car repo’d.
I bought my car from Honda of Thousand Oaks on Aug 11th and everything looks like it was going beautifully until on Sept 14th the dealer started to call to say that there was a lapse in the insurance from Sept to Nov so it now doesn’t qualify for the C4C anymore. The dealer started to call every day while I was on vacation and when I came back they continued to harass me by saying they are going to sue me and that I have to go in pay them the $3500. I called the CARS hotline and found that the dealer shouldn’t of released the car over to use in the first place without doing the proper verification. These dealers should have received training and documentation on how to proceed with the verification from the government. Because the dealer didn’t do their due diligence now they are asking for $3500 or they will take legal action. Can they really pursue legal action because isn’t it the responsibility of the dealers to verify if a car is qualified or not before the release of a vehicle?
It’s going…
We first went to the Mini dealership on Jul 23. We are absolutely qualified… however, after spending hours at the dealer, we were told we could not do the deal that day as the final rule was coming out on the 24th. Although I was very upset, I know they were right to do this. However, we had been told that our paperwork would be put through as soon as the dealership got their approval. I read the rule on Friday and quickly realized that we would be denied only because of the Appendix A… and I let the dealership know this. I asked them whether I should go to another dealership, since it was pretty clear they were having trouble getting their deals made.
They did not take in the clunker; nor did they release my new Mini to me. On the 28th, I AGAIN asked whether I should go somewhere else. Oh, no… let’s do two contracts – one reflecting the CARS deal, one straight up financing. On the 29th, we got our car – and still kept the clunker. We did not hear anything back, whether approved, denied… nothing.
Finally, it dawned on me, and I asked about my CARS deal. No response. I asked again. Nothing. I then told them (all via email) that if someone did not get back with me I was going to the Senate, the bbb, the head of Mini and anyone else who would listen. Quick response that time! But no info…
Finally got a call back on Sep 3… they would resubmit CARS paperwork, but we should use the “non CARS contract to make payments, and they will mail me a check for $4500… no way. It is not income for me – it’s income for THEM. And they had to take the clunker NOW, because that’s what they are saying on the paperwork, AND what would happen if I get caught driving it??? Okay, they would take the clunker.
I requested my CARS deal be honored. First payment on the “non Cars” loan was due 9/10… I spoke with “my” lawyer, who said, “write a letter, copy to BMW finance and to me… state the position – that we are qualified, they made the mistake, and we want them to take the clunker and give us back our CARS contract”. We dropped the Ranger off to them on the 8th of Sep… before they got their certified letter.
Have not heard anything yet, but BMW finance did call me – they are aware of the situation and will wait to see what happens (we put a 10-day limit on the dealer).
Senator Feingold’s office also called, wanting to know how things are going… right now, we’re in a hold pattern… haven’t heard anything from BBB, but we do show up as an active complaint against International Motors… I’ve NEVER gotten a response from the CARS hotline, even though I did call and was told I would hear back within 2 days. That was 2 wks ago.
If we had not done this, I have no doubt that I would not have gotten the Mini I wanted – as fast as I was finding one on the web from the 4 dealers (ranging from 150 – 450 mi away!), they were going.
I firmly believe that I was strung along by International. I think they used the lure of a good CARS deal to keep me there, once they realized I would go somewhere else. And they were not going to give me my car, nor would they take the clunker as REQUIRED.
Well, I’ve got the car. They’ve got the Ranger. Now all they have to do is straighten out the paperwork. The big problem is that the dealership seems to think the $4500 was between me and the FED. It is not. The rebate is between the FED and the dealership.
I’m glad I kept calling, kept asking for help. Too many dealers getting away with not doing the right thing.
Let’s hope it goes…
Chris,
Talk with Andrew Cuomo’s office and tell them you need help now.
Your dealer has violated several federal regulations when they made certifications on their submission to the govt for the credit.
Marybeth…get in contact with consumers advocates, especially:
Rosemary Shahan, CARS (Sacramento) 530-759-9440,
Joe Ridout, Consumer Action ( San Francisco) 415-777-9648,
public citizen,
citizen.org
The above consumer advocate groups are involved in trying to protect CFC buyers from situations such as yours.
I went into Cecconi Chrysler on July 29, 2009 to trade in my 1997 Ford Crown Victoria. At first, the dealership told me I could only purchase a Jeep Compass only. I later found out I had more vehicle options and went with a Dodge Journey. On July 30, they took posession of my clunker title, and another vehicle’s title that I’m trading in as well. They also took a down payment at that time. They told me that on August 3, all paperwork was fully submitted on July 29, my new loan was approved, and all they were waiting on was the reimbursement from the Government. They said my new loan was all set, and they were going to be holding the new Journey. I waited and waited, calling every few days. I finally did more research and found out that they were supposed to release the new vehicle to me when they took my titles and down payment on July 30. When I asked them about this, they said the Government has no say in this, and that they will not release the vehicle until they get the money from the Government. I called the CARS program and filed a complaint, and am in the process of filing a complaint with the NY Attorney General. In the meantime, the bank financing in the trade in van (not the clunker) called asking about my payment last night. I adivsed them I’m in the process of trading it in, and that I was advised by Cecconi’s on August 3rd that all was set with the new loan. The finance company advised me that they were never even contacted for a payoff amount. I called the dealership again, and walked them through the getting of the payoff quote. They promised me delivery of the new Journey on August 26. That came and went. Then I was supposed to get it last week. That came and went. They subsequently promised it to me by this weekend. When I called them today, they said they’d call back, and never answered or returned any of my calls.
I would like to know if I am right that they were supposed to release the new vehicle to me when they took my titles and down payment. I’m also concerned that they didn’t mess up my application. Over the course of the month of August, many vehicles showed up on their lot with “CFC” written on the windows, yet I’ve been sitting and waiting since July 30.
Any advise anybody has for me would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!
Marybeth in Florida…..
I think that you don’t have a leg to stand on. I understand the dealer put your paperwork through and all. But you renewed your registration the SAME day. I am positive you did that for a specific reason. This action will be construed as YOU knew the rules, whether true or not.
I think the dealer is dirty because SOMEBODY there read the rules. And I am sure they made a choice to ignore the registration aspect to see if and how they could get over because they smelled money and they are dirtbags, and in this situation it happened to not work for them. (Not to get govt money anyway, right now they still have yours.)
You can try to keep the car and fight them, I probably would too. But sadly, I think you will lose because ultimately you renewed your tags for the car the same day you got rid of it. The fault here is going to be traced back to you. Did I metion that dealer is a dirtball? If they fire your son over this, call a lawyer no matter the reason they give for firing him. (She is probably going to be pissed at me for this, but this is just my logical opinion.)
Maybe the best thing to do is return the car, and look for something else. It won’t be as great of a deal and all……but then on priciple you won’t have to deal with these guys anymore. Tell them since they can’t produce your clunker, you want the blue book value for it?
Good luck to you.
Today we got a call from the car dealership that our cash for clunkers paperwork did not go through and we needed to pay the 4500.00 or bring the new car back to them. We said we would give them their car back if they gave us our car back (worth 5,000.) but the car dealership had already blown up the engine. Our paperwork did not go through because we had renewed our tags the day we bought the car so there was a lapse in registration even though we have had the car for 6 years and had proof of insurance. The car dealership said this was our problem even though the salesman knew we had done this and we should have been aware of the rules. The car dealership stated they knew the rules and yet it is our problem. The worst part of the story is our son is a mechanic at this dealership and they said they would leave him out of this “for now!” The car dealership said in so many words that they are going to take legal action against us. How can the government make the dealership destroy the cars before the paperwork is satisfied? This has left a bad taste in our mouths and ruined a relationship with our sons employers. Any suggestions as to what we should do?
I got my car, but got scammed on price? help? I got an internet quote before going to Honda dealer. Did test drive, etc., had ALL my papers with me for qualifiacation proof. Was told internet price no good because doing C4C. (Wanted to scream and RUN for the door, price haggling is supposed to make numbers go down…not up!!) But it was the end of July and I knew the first round of funding was kicked. So I sucked it up and got the best deal I could squeeze, and got a great car out of it (and drove home same night.) 2 days later I am on CARS website figuring out if my uncle’s POS will qualify, yes it does. And then I read something funny……..DEALERS HAVE TO HONOR DEALER PRICING, SPECIALS, MRF SPECIALS ETC IN ADDITION TO REBATE!! I wrote the GM a letter and hand delivered, watched him read it…basically telling dealer that he broke federal regulations, pointed out specific sections of written rules where I pulled this from, etc. Please honor my internet pricing and refund to me $520 difference, or provide written explaination withing 10 days….was the gist of it. A week later I was told the “central office” was handling it, will hear something in a few days. I haven’t heard JACK! This was over a month ago. There is an arbitration clause in my bill of sale, I am only allowed to sue in small claims court or request arbitration? I am in PA. I have info to contact ATTY GEN “fraud hotline”. Is it too late, does that work? What would you do? (Should I write letter to Mr. Dealership Owner too, and let him know I’ve been ignored?)
“PLEASE DO NOT PUBLISH MY LAST NAME”
I was wondering if I could sew the “CARS” program because I was discriminated against and unfaily penalized by rules made by congress and the senate and signed into law by Obama? I am in a chapter 13 bankruptcy, part of which allows for me to be able to purchase a new car over the course of the settlement period. I was not allowed to participate in the CARS program because the rules require that I give the title of my trade in vehicle to the dealership and take posession of the new vehicle on the same day that the deal is made. In order to purchase a vehicle I have to have a “permission to accrue non-emergency debt” form filled out and signed by the courts. This requires that I include all financing information along with a signed purchase agreement to the judge for approval. They amended the rules in the cars program that requires you have the vehicle insured for at least one year to exclude these States that do not require insurance because that rule “unfairly peanalized them”. The same day rule also “unfairly penalizes people in a chapter 13″ I think the insurance requirement amendment sets president that requires this change be made as well. I want to sue and have it made so the Govt. has to send out vouchyers to people like me that were also unfairly penalized. Any takers?
Netizen–have you looked at how many foreign components are in a typical US branded car? It is nearly impossible to do what you honorably describe–buy american only. I think we would all line up for that if it was possible.
The good news is many foreign cars are at least assembled in the US, with some manufacturing of components over here too. That’s not 100% US made, but it does support our infrastructure in some areas. If you boycott Toyota, Nissan and others with US plants–think of the community impact in those areas. I bet they have a different opinion.
Here is your challenge–publish a list of cars that have 100% US made components and assembled in the US. I’ll buy one too.
How can I know If my Ford Drealer even bothered to file my Claim
I need to trust my dealership ? How do I know they are not going to get the 4500 and put it in there pocket and say sorry it didnt go thru, now you owe us another 4500$
there should be a way to track your “Voucher”
My american Car Dealer told me If I dont like it go buy a toyata
Nick,
Thanks, glad you’re happy for us. Our post is on three forums (not “every” forum) because it fits three forums. Feel free to ignore anything you don’t want to read. As for “ridiculous” I think that would be a good term for someone waiting six weeks for a car because they didn’t have sense enough to shop around.
As for saying we’re “extremely lucky”, that’s exactly the attitude that keeps some folks waiting six weeks while others enjoy their self-made success. We made our own luck by paying attention, by shopping around, and by jumping on the right deal at the first possible moment. Winners make their own luck while losers curse their bad fortune.
This program had all the earmarks of a disaster waiting to happen, and we’ve only seen the beginning. It’s going to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better. Buyers and dealers will be exposed as fraudulent while the feds expose themselves as incompetent. If you’re looking for reassurance, you’ve come to the wrong place.
wE WENT ON jULY 22 TO LOMAN FORD AND KIA IN WOODBRIDGE, N.J WE PICK OUT A KIA SPORATAGE. WE WERE TOLD THE PROGRAM DID’T START TILE THE 23. THEN IT WAS THE 27TH. THEN WE WERE TOLD WE WOULD HAVE TO WAIT 10-15 DAYS TO GET APPROVED. AS OF TODAY AUGUST 27,2009 WE STILL DO NOT HAVE THE KIA AND WE STILL HAVE OUR CLUNKER. WE WERE TOLD WE HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER 2 WEEKS, I HAVE CHECK THERE WEB SITE AND FOUND OUR KIA SPORTAGE THE SAME VIN # NO. THAT IS ON OUR PAPER WORK .NO BODY HAS CALLED US . THE DEALER SAID HE IS OT RELEASING THE KIA UNTIL HE GETS PAID BY THE GOVERMENT. ANYBODY KNOW OF A GODD LAWYER. JOANNE
ROFL,
You put this post on every forum on this web page. Good for you, we are all very happy for you. You were extremely lucky in dealing with a dealership that would release your car immediately. I did exactly the same thing you did, and I am still waiting for delivery of my car.
I don’t mind waiting and I am confident that I will get my car. I read these forums because I am hoping to find people in a similar situation to reassure myself. Instead, I see your obnoxious post on every forum. Please, shut up. Your post is ridiculous.
Tyler (the “lawyer”),
stop telling WHO WHAT?
I’m a lawyer, STOP TELLING THEM THIS!!!
Hey casey,
Read my post again. We qualified for the CARS deal and furnished and signed everything required by the final rule of the legislation. Appendix A and Appendix D of the final rule are required, protecting the dealer’s butt in case he can’t or won’t do the required processing is not. As for reading the law, clearly I know it better than the dealer because I DO have the car, free and clear, and he does NOT have my signature on his CYA legal mumbo-jumbo. He got what he needs, but not what he (later) wanted.
I had a similar problem as Agni12. My vehicle had been registered for 7 years. I had insurance for those 7 years except for a 2 month period around February. My vehicle needed work done and did not have the money. Until I was able to afford the work done I did not insure the vehicle. I ended up “changing” some dates on the insurance papers. Hopefully with 690,000 transactions, they will not catch this. Intent was there, just for a rule that is not fair for special problems.
Hey ROLF you obviously only collected the paperwork you thought you needed not what was clearly stated.
The dealer did what was required by law. Why blame them for your vehicle not qualifying. Again a consumer blaming the dealer because they followed they law. You were trying to committ fraud on this transaction. Read the law and blame yourself
i
Joyce Honda in Denville NJ. The have the title to my clunker, they have a $500.00 deposit, they have a 2009 Honda Civic on their Lot that’s mine and I still have my clunker. If anyone in NJ knows of a lawyer who may possibly be starting a “Class Action Suit” please email jjordan475@aol.com
Thanks,
Joel
Indy -
It seems our deal is done and over with. We made the mistake by trusting what we were led to believe and took delivery of our new vehicle.
Thanks for your reply tho
I heard and confirmed that a dealer completed a C4C deal with a 4500 rebate coming to the dealership. The customer had a 4000 tax lein. The rebate amount was reduced to 500, and the dealer was informed that they needed to contact the customer for the balance.
This happened in the Central Florida area.
I was shocked to hear about this situation.
Steve
Brenda Blis,
Did your dealer extend you a $3500 credit and apply to the govt for reimbursement? If so, is the application rejected and cancelled, or still in the system, or has it been approved.
If your dealer has an application in the system that either has been approved or is awaiting review, and you are serious about taking legal action, I’d advised “buying” your clunker back to use as evidence. There’s a dealer that is really asking for trouble!
Oh, we could however get another Category 3 vehicle, but those have lower MPG. Doesn’t make any sense. AND the dealer wants us to “buy” back our Clunker for $25.00.
I would like to take legal action also. We were led to believe we would qualify, well we didn’t. We have a 1999 Chevy Suburban 1500 4 wheel drive that they are saying is a category 3 vehicle, just the 1998 and 1999 Suburbans. Now we’re stuck with a high payment for our new car.
At 7pm on August 24, 2009, an hour before the CARS expires, our salesman at the dealership informs us that his manager will not release the new vehicle to us because the Honda corporation sent their sales staff that they will no longer participate in the program as of 3pm, Saturday, August 22, 2009 because Honda was not receiving the $4500 cash from the government in a timely manner. We went to the Honda Paramus dealership 5 times and approximately 20 hours spent traveling from NY to NJ, each time the saleman asking for this and that document and holding onto our title for our old van for a week. We could have bought the Odessey at any other dealership. Paramus Honda continuously told us that the Odessey was ours, even showed us the Odessey we contracted for and then at the last minute refused to sell to us. We lost out on the CARS program due their reassurances. We will be suing for at least the $4500.
I traded my 1993 4×4 Ford Ranger w/4.0-L engine clunker for a 2009 Ford Focus. The dealer wanted me to sign a ‘contingency’ indemnification agreement which I protested as against the CARS rules. Nevertheless, Courtesy Ford of Portland, OR waited until I’d signed over my 1993 Ranger title, locked up my keys, kept me until 11:00pm on a Friday night in a strange city and foreign State to hand me the ‘contingency’ paper to sign before they’d let me have the keys to the vehicle I’d bargained for. I had no other way home, no cash to call a taxi or rent a room for the night. I was bullied, intimidated, and coerced into signing something I’d rejected earlier. Courtes Ford of Portland waited until I had no practical choice in the matter.
i am very disgusted and fustrated. after spending all my weekend in finding a personal loan. I was told by the dealer sorry but you do not qualify for the program. I wrongfully denied since I was told they were no longer taking clunkers when in fact i was told by the finance manager they were working on 4 loans for clunkers. I had the check made payable to them by my own financing with a loan i was forced to find. which i was granted a personal loan and financing was not a problem. the dealer lend me to believe there was no problem they even gave my bank all the information in cutting them the check payable to the dealer for what to find out i do not qualify because they are not taking any more clunkers they are only working in “cleaning out” the existing loans. Yet I had a check payable to them with the exact amount needed to close out on the deal but they wouldn’t take it becuase i had not register my vehicle on time. What was that about I have own my clunker for 10 years and had valid license plates and insurance through out those 10 years. Yet cuz I got the license plates 24 days late I was given that excuse & that “they were not longer taking clunkers” yet they had 4 other customers waiting for what so they would be told the same thing i was, “NO MORE CLUNKERS” it is unfair since I waited on them to give a the loan when they said I didn’t qualify for the loan for me to find a personal loan with my own bank. Yet they told me they would take my clunker as a “REGULAR” trade in but I wouldn’t get what “Obama” offered. I told them NO thank you but I was going to report the fraud since I was led on to beleive I would get approved and got my finance bank to approve my loan and cut them a check payable to the dealer yet the dealer wouldn’t take my clunker. Was that right on their behalf. I never read any where in the advertising from that dealer or any other dealer stating otherwise. Obama’s offer was standing to those persons who Owned the vehicle for more than one year who had valid insurance for that vehicle for more than one year, I did I have owned that truck for 10 years and have had valid insurance for those 10 years. Sorry I must have missed the fine print where they (dealer) are stating I did not renewed my plates on time. Yet I did renewed and have had valid insurance through out the 10 years. Yes I might have been late but who isn’t especially after encountering several mechanical problems and having to maintain a working and gas guzzling for those 10 years. Not even giving me the 13 miles to the gallon more like maybe 9 or 10 miles only. Yet they (the dealer) disqualified me and not even gave me the opportunity to go else where to find another dealer since I was so busy all weekend trying to find my own financing! Is there anything I could do in taking legal action after the dealer denying me the “Cash for Clunkers” please advise…many thanks
I’m frustrated with the process, I applied for the Cash for Clunkers deal on July 27th. I even left a deposit on a car on that same day, July 27th. It’s been a month and they are still waiting for a response from the Govt. Now that the program is over I’m forced to make a deal at the current dealer. I feel like my clunkers title is being held hostage. This delay made it impossible for me to shop around as I had to submit my title to start the procedure. I’ve gotten my tax return faster than this. What if I can’t make a deal with the current dealer? Am I out of luck? I’m very upset that I’ve had to wait a MONTH for this. How can there be so many cars out there being driven and I’m still waiting? Is this an issue that I can take legal action against dealer if I lose out on the opportunity because they took so long??
I owned 1997 Mercury Villager since July ‘97. I have been driving and maintaining with insurance and registration. It’s registrations was due to expire on July 31st, 09. I took it to VA Safety and Emissions inspection and it failed. I spent close to $400 to fix, still the emissions part failed. Could not re-register before the deadline passed, I spent additional $400, still the problem not resolved. Then decided to go the cash for clunkers. Ford dealer on August 21st suggested that I should bring valid registration doc and I am eligible to get an Escape Hybrid. On August 22nd, 09, the Emissions station inspector told me that the DMV, in VA will issue registration extension for 4-6 weeks. I explained it to the DMV and got extension thru September 09 for $11. The Ford dealer accepted the registration, and all other required papers, processed the transaction all the way, just close enough to kill my Mercury engine. Then after 10 hrs of haggling, he announced, I am not qualified because of 21 day lapse (August 1st thru August 21st – no valid registration for my vehilce in VA) in the continuty of registration requirement to be eligible for cash for clunkers program. I checked the web, and it is still a gray area and there is no definte answer. My question to the knowledgeble folks is, have I been unfairly treated or it is a Obama admin’s cagegorical rule. I saved almost all 12 years registration documents, and the insurance papers. There was no intention to avoid registering the vehilce in VA. My friends advised me to go to another dealer. I am frustrated with this process, and in this last minute frenzy, you got to deal with more headaches. DO I have any legal recourse with regard to the registration requirement?
thanks,